www.flickr.com
This is a Flickr badge showing public photos from Matthew Wireman. Make your own badge here.

Friday, January 13

Does An Atheist Morality Really Exist??

There is no basis for an ethic apart from the theistic worldview.
What determines right and wrong?

If you say the individual, then you must admit that what Hitler did to the Jews was acceptable. I hope no one would say such a thing.
If you say the community determines right and wrong, then the same as above is true as well. The community of Nazis decided that it was right and desirable to exterminate the Jews.

In this kind of utilitarianism, might makes right. If there is a larger group who believes something is right then they are justified to force others to live a certain way. For instance, if a society thinks that is right for a man to be able to have sex with any woman he wants - even raping her - then one would have to acquiesce to this.

Again, who is to say that the majority in one culture is wrong and the majority in another culture is right? That is, how can people say that the entire Third Reich was wrong? According to an atheist ethic, it is impossible to say this. On what is the morality based?

When we set this on paper, we see the ridiculous nature of such a way to view ethics and morality. This is the way that one must live to be somewhat consistent in their morality. Apart from God, there can be no true morality. One community cannot tell another group that they are wrong.

God is the fount from which flows morality and right living. He has defined what is good and what is evil. As Francis Shaeffer has said, an atheist cannot be consistent (rational thought post and contradiction post).

Additionally, if someone who does not believe in God says, “I operate from the maxim: ‘Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.’” This maxim cannot be separated from the person who gave it: Jesus. A non-Christian cannot say, “I can believe in what Jesus said, but I don’t have to believe in him.” What will the non-Christian say is “good”? How he defines this is dependent on his own subjective experience...and then we go back to the beginning of this post -- goodness cannot be defined by the individual.

One cannot live in the world of the atheist. Where there is no God that is worshiped, there can be no objective reality. This is why there is such a desire to do away with any notion of God’s existence. If this is done in the person’s mind (for it can never be done!), then they have no accountability for the wrongs they have done...they have freedom from judgment (at least in their minds!) and can feel free to do as they please without remorse...for who can tell them they are wrong?

For those of you that would disagree, how would you respond to this conclusion? What are some arguments that others of you have heard that would contradict this post? Essentially, the non-Christian cannot live a consistent, nor coherent, moral life.

Comments on "Does An Atheist Morality Really Exist??"

 

Blogger Joe said ... (Sun Jan 15, 05:23:00 PM) : 

Well said. There is no a priori morality outside of Christ!

 

Blogger Matthew Wireman said ... (Mon Jan 16, 05:01:00 AM) : 

Thanks for the comment, Joe.

You're right, outside of Christ there can be no explanation as to why and how we as humans are moral creatures. I will talk more about the inconsistency of an atheistic worldview in the days to come...stay tuned.

I would like to see, though, what kind of rebuttals or issues anyone takes with my assertion...

 

Blogger Matthew Wireman said ... (Mon Jan 16, 07:19:00 PM) : 

Thank you very much, heyirishman,

I really appreciate your clarifying questions. A moral act is what is good and right. This pertains to three areas (as explained in CS Lewis' Mere Christianity, Book III): Aim, Behavior, and Character. That is, morality cannot be based merely upon action - there is also motive and aim. The difference between motive and aim can be explained by example better than I can do with abstract expanation. In euthanasia, the motive is compassion for the person who is suffering whereas the aim is death.

The Bible does not teach that we earn points with God. I do not doubt there are many Christians who have this false notion. We are told that a relationship with God has been devastated by sin and only a perfect person can have an unblemished relaitonship with God. Since even our nicest deed is shot through with evil intentions, if you dig down deep enough, a human is not able to have such a relationship with a pure, holy, and just God. That's why the Christian flings himself upon the mercy of God in Christ - most exemplified by his death on the cross.

My issue with someone saying, "I do good things because they're good" is that he has only scraped the surface when it comes to true morality. 1) What is his status of "good" based upon? 2) If everyone lived by an individualized morality, the world would be in even worse shape than it is (Hitler would not be seen as wrong and the world would have had no right to quench his passion to kill).

3) I do not think an atheist can explain what true morality is (as it must be objective) nor can he explain why he does good things. Why do good things rather than bad things? There is no rational based upon a coherent atheistic worldview. I hope some of the CS Lewis quotes are helpful a well when thinking through this.

Does this make sense? I hope I was clearer. Was there anything that you felt I didn't make clear? Would you agree with this assessment? At what point would we part ways in my logic?

Thanks again for taking the time to respond! I love it when people think through and seek to know...

 

Blogger Matthew Wireman said ... (Mon Jan 16, 09:05:00 PM) : 

heyirishman,

I am not saying that an atheist cannot be moral. I hope that is not what I have conveyed. What I am saying is that there is no grounding for a morality based upon an atheistic understanding of the world.

I know that there are many, many atheists who do good things. But like I said in my comment above, in an atheist worldview, how do they judge what is good?

 

Blogger Matthew Wireman said ... (Tue Jan 17, 04:22:00 PM) : 

heyisrishman,

You are opening up a whole other discussion when you bring in people's convictions. Though important, it is not on the same level of argument, nor importance as the existence of God.

You're right, I did say that there is no slam dunk proof for God's existence, but if you go to my first post on the topic of God's existence (entitled "Many Buckets") you will see that although there is not one proof that will win the argument, there are several proofs that point us to a solid defnese of the existence of God.

Some may say this is playing with words, I think they may just be getting lost in the words rather than being able to see and show where there would be any hollowness in what I am saying. It comes down to the fact that finite brains cannot contain the exhaustive knowledge of that which is other-worldly (for lack of a better term).

Briefly, the atheist and the Christian are not in the same boat as you might think when it comes to convictions. The Christian is led so far as he can be with regard to revealed right and wrong. The other issues, smoking, drinking, movie-going are relegated to what is known as adiaphora, which are matters of indifference or permissible acts.

I would highly suggest reading CS Lewis' Mere Chrisitianity, Book I.

My main premise regarding the atheist and morality is that he does not have a solid footing to stand on if he uses only atheistic presuppositions. He must borrow from the theistic worldview. Why do right? I would suggest that it comes from the image of God that is pressed upon the individual. And in a few days I will go further in my argument where the atheist has no grounding for logic and argumentation. Stay tuned...

 

Blogger Matthew Wireman said ... (Tue Jan 24, 03:52:00 AM) : 

j.d. ~

I am sorry if I offended you. My intention was to present proofs, not prove the existence of God. As heyirishman said, I want to show the rationality of faith in God.

I do not agree with you that the beauty of faith is that it is trust upon a reality not some blind leap. The picture I get is in Indiana Jones' Last Crusade...he is told that there is a bridge he must cross. He knows there is a bridge, though he does not see it. He trusts the directions to be reliable and he takes a step, though he does not see.

If you go to my post Locke, Lost, and Faith I think you will see where I am coming from.

I'm not offended that you will not read my blog anymore, but I do wish you would. I think it would help explain my understanding of faith in Christ - that it is a firm foundation. I would like to hear where you think I am off the mark. I may not have explained myself as clearly as I would have liked (I have been known to do that before).

Again, thank you for your comment...

 

post a comment
Template By: Thur Broeders